I'm really sick of all the heavy political talk, but I have to talk about this. Once I have my rant, I promise to not have political talk for awhile.
My main question is: What is the big deal? Who cares if gays can get married? I grew up in a Catholic home. Both of my parents are very religious and are practicing Catholics to this day. Me, not so much. I have my own very special relationship with God. I do go to church, but very rarely. And a couple of years ago when I was going through a horrible depression I went every Sunday to a Catholic church that I found, and liked. I've always been a very open minded person. And I don't understand the ban of gay marriage. Why are we crossing church and state? I know that it says in the bible that marriage is meant for a man and a woman. It also says in the bible to not have sex before marriage. Well I can tell you that, that ain't happening! But do they try to ban that? NO~because it would be something that the law really wouldn't be able to enforce. So why stop 2 people who love each other from getting married? I just think it is very narrow minded. I think once we get past the fact that this is a huge reality in our life, years from now we'll look back on this, like we look back on women not being able to vote. Like, "we tried to stop that from happening? why? what was the point?" We gave women the right to vote, and to have a voice. we let black people go where white people were always allowed to go~sit anywhere on a public bus, share the same bathrooms etc... But we can't get 2 people who love each other, who want to spend the rest of their lives together be married?! It is hard to find love, and I believe when you do find that love you want it to be official, you want it to be legal. I can't help but think that if 20 years ago we asked people "What do you think will happen first? Gay people being able to legally wed? Or a black man becoming president?" I can't help but think the answer would be gay people allowing to get married. Because I think for a long time(and I think this still goes on in some people's heads) our vision of a stereotypical black man, is a man that do no good. Now let me say that I myself have never thought this, and lets be honest, I like me a black man every once in awhile. But our country somehow as gotten this stereotype in a lot of people's head. And now we have a black man running our country?! Who would have thought. We elected a black man to be our voice. But we can't let 2 women, or 2 men that we don't know, that we will probably never know, get married. Because some people think it is wrong. Why should what some people believe stop other people doing something that they believe. Some people(obviously) will never believe in gay marriage, but why should that stop people who don't believe that from being with the person they love. What did they ever do to you? And who are you to take that away from them?! I just don't get it. I really don't. Times are obviously changing, and this is just part of the course. I believe that eventually gay marriage will be legal, I just don't see why it should be later, when it could have been now.
9 comments:
AMEN! Well put! And, I see you are reading Eat, Pray, Love - I love that book! :-)
This is a hot button topic right now, particularly with Mormons. As you know, I'm a Mormon. I believe strongly that marriage should stay between a man and a woman. I don't feel the need to defend that position, but I will explain it to you and others so that you understand why we believe what we do (this could be long, sorry, but you did ask!). So here goes.
As Mormons, we believe that marriage is ordained of God, and is only for a man and a woman. It's a moral issue. We also believe you shouldn't have sex outside of marriage--and we don't. Not faithful Mormons anyway. The reason we believe these things is because having children is an act of creation and should be kept sacred--and gay people can't create children together. On pbs.org you can read this statement made by a leader of our church, and here's a portion to make it more clear: "... Our position on that [gay marriage] is that there is a single standard actually of morality for all members of the church, and that essentially is that we abstain from all sexual relationships and sexual relations prior to marriage. Once we do marry, we are loyal, completely loyal, to our marital partner, and that the only marriage sanctioned by God is of a man to a woman. As Paul said, 'Neither is a man without the woman nor the woman without the man in the Lord.'...So there is really no allowance within our doctrine for a homosexual relationship of woman to woman or man to man. Obviously that creates a lot of pain...The thing that we have to ultimately say ... is, yes, there's nature; yes, there's nurture; but there's also agency. We all have the capacity and power to choose..." (you can read the rest here)
An interesting article I read about gay marriage (you can read it here) says, "No judge, no legislature, no ruler has the right or power to change the meaning of a word. Languages are created by common consent. Governments did not create marriage, they merely regulated it -- requiring blood tests, refusing to grant legal status to marriages between persons too closely related, and deciding when or whether a marriage can be dissolved. What they don't have the right to do is declare that 'marriage' now includes relationships that were never intended when laws regulating marriage were enacted."
So for all the people out there who hate Mormons or are calling us intolerant, I want to clear one thing up: we are not intolerant. Tolerance as a Christian principle means love and forgiveness of one another, not “tolerating” transgression. A prominant leader of our church said "Tolerance obviously requires a non-contentious manner of relating toward one another’s differences. But tolerance does not require abandoning one’s standards or one’s opinions on political or public policy choices. Tolerance is a way of reacting to diversity, not a command to insulate it from examination."
I feel badly that people are so upset over this issue, and lawsuits are cropping up saying it's not fair. But the majority of the people in California voted for proposition 8, which means they don't want gay marriage. I think that says something. Gay people have the same rights as married couples--insurance, rights in a hospital, all of those kinds of things--and I don't think redefining marriage is necessary.
In addition, if marriage is redefined this way, gay marriage will be taught in schools. And I don't think that's appropriate. It's already happening in Massachusetts. If I want to introduce my children to something like that, I would do it myself.
So what it comes down to is that I view it as a moral issue, and homosexuality in my eyes is a sin. When we pass laws condoning sin, we are treading on very thin ice as a society. The constitution was written for a moral people, and when we become immoral, we no longer claim the privileges the constitution provides.
So, that's one girl's opinion. I don't mean to offend anyone and I'm sorry if I have. I'm just explaining my side of things. You can read an official statement about it from the LDS church here.
Hi, me again...sorry! Just wanted to add that I don't think this issue is overwith for sure, and eventually I believe it will be legal in the US. I just don't see this as a civil rights issue, I see it as a moral one.
Thanks Emily! To be honest that is why I asked the question, because I was hoping you would answer to give your side of the story, because I know that you dont' believe in gay marriage. And I was curious about what you would say. So thank you. With that being said, we are going to have to agree to disagree on this. Because I really don't think it is a moral issue. I believe if someone is gay, they are gay that person can't do anything about it. You of course have a much much more religous background and knowlegde on the subject than I will ever have. But that is just what I believe. I do agree however it shouldn't be taught in the schools, and that should be decided upon the parent. But I also think eventually all children will see it as apart of our society.
I know very much why people oppose it, that said I am very liberally minded on this subject. I am pro-love, I don't care WHO you love, or why you love them, you should have the RIGHT to celebrate that love and have it recognized. For me, as a mother especially because any one of our children could turn out to be gay (not saying I think any of them are or will be), I would never want my child to ever feel that the union they chose to make with another person is sinful or wrong. It is one of the main reasons I disagree with religion. If I ever did attend a church it would have to be one that embraces EVERYone, including people who are gay. Most Christians have sex before marriage, it's a fact, yet they are still allowed to marry. Even though they have been sinful. It is a very sensitive topic for me because I know some very lovely people that just happen to be gay. I embrace them, my children embrace them, and it kills me that society, government, and church do not embrace them. Marriage is sacred, yet people cheat. Marriage is sacred, yet people divorce. Marriage is sacred, but it is only for people of opposite sexes. Sorry, I just can't grasp it.
yeah April, I agree. I don't think people choose to be gay. I know a few people who are gay too, and I think they're lovely and good people. In my comment I quoted that somebody said "nature...nurture...choice." I don't think that means people CHOOSE to be gay. I think it's what they do with that fact of their life. For a Mormon who is gay, if you're going to live your life within the framework of the our Gospel, within the framework of our doctrine, then you've got to choose to marry someone of the opposite sex, and if you can't do that honestly, then your choice has to be to live a celibate life. That is a very difficult choice. I think we're asking a tremendous amount of them. But that's what we believe. But I understand your points of view and even sometimes wish I could agree with you just for peace's sake. But I don't feel like I can honestly do that and still call myself a faithful member of my church, which is the most important thing in my life. Thanks for your respect of my opinion too, I appreciate that this could have turned into a real bashing session. Love you guys!
Well and that is exactly what I did NOT want. We are all adults here, and I would hope that we would respect each other's points of view. I know that I do(respect you, and your point of view). It is a touchy subject, but I was talking to my mother about it the other day, and she completely agrees with me. But made the point that my dad would never see my point of view let alone agree with it. What is important is to know that we can be open minded to see the other persons point of view, but then still have your own point of view. And I would never want you to agree with something just for the peace of it(and I know you would never do that and neither would I). You have to stand by what you believe in, and that is one reason why I am so thankful you posted what you did. I remember one of our first conversations about you talking about your religion(I think we were in Mid school)and how passionate you were about the subject. And I remember thinking "wow that is SO cool." I suppose probably becasue I think my religion is pretty boring. And now anytime I meet a Mormon I always think of you, and hold them up to your standard of coolness!
I'm a friend of Emily's and hopefully it's okay if I comment about my feelings on this subject. I really appreciate the level of respect for each other so far in these comments- it's really refreshing.
Like Emily, I am LDS and while morally I also feel that marriage is between a man and woman, there are many other reasons why I have been active in the efforts to pass prop 8. I have 2 gay uncles who I love and respect. I feel very strongly in their right to love whomever they choose and to live accordingly. Like you said- many people have sex before marriage. Do we try to ban that? No. But you see, not allowing same-sex marriage is in no way making homosexual relations illegal or forcing our moral beliefs, of those acts being sinful, upon others.
Actually, California affords domestic partnerships all of the same rights and responsibilities as marriages under state law (Cal. Fam. Code §297.5). I fully support this. (Any compassionate and good person should want same-sex couples to have rights such as hospital visitation)!
So why is the title "marriage" such a big deal and why is there a fight over it? Well, government has gotten its tentacles all over marriage- in essence it has dragged religion into the public realm. I fear many have misunderstood the cry for "separation of church and state". That phrase is nowhere to be found in any of our Founding documents. The concept came from the personal writings of Thomas Jefferson, in an 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptist Association, a group that constituted a religious minority in Connecticut. While churches are not allowed to endorse candidates, they have every right to address moral issues and to encourage members to support such causes.
The 1st amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances".
So what happens to religious institutions who preach that marriage is between a man and woman? And what about churches who won't allow same-sex marriage ceremonies on their private property? A doctor in San Diego refused to artificially inseminate a lesbian, saying it went against his religious beliefs. (He offered to transfer her to an alternate doctor who would perform the procedure and he was even wiling to pay the additional fees). The patient sued and courts ruled in her favor. What about this doctor's rights? Or the NM photographer who was sued because she morally was opposed to photographing a same-sex civil union ceremony? In all cases (and many similar cases) courts have ruled that discrimination laws trump 1st amendment rights. Catholic charities in Mass. were forced to close down their adoption services because they would only place children with a father and mother.
Second, I feel marriage is not just about 2 consenting adults loving each other. David Blankenhorn, a liberal democrat, eloquently writes about this in an opinion article in the L.A Times (if you want to read it). Here's a little tidbit: "Marriage (and only marriage) unites the three core dimensions of parenthood -- biological, social and legal -- into one pro-child form: the married couple. Marriage says to a child: The man and the woman whose sexual union made you will also be there to love and raise you. Marriage says to society as a whole: For every child born, there is a recognized mother and a father, accountable to the child and to each other"..."Every child being raised by gay or lesbian couples will be denied his birthright to both parents who made him. Every single one. Moreover, losing that right will not be a consequence of something that at least most of us view as tragic, such as a marriage that didn't last, or an unexpected pregnancy where the father-to-be has no intention of sticking around. On the contrary, in the case of same-sex marriage and the children of those unions, it will be explained to everyone, including the children, that something wonderful has happened!"
Last, Mass. education codes & parental opt out rights are near identical to Californias. You can read cases "Parker vs Hurley" or "Parker vs. Lexington" for a better understanding of court rulings, but essentially schools can read books such as "King and King" to kindergartners and other (in my opinion) age inappropriate material without parental notification or choice to opt out.
I've researched these issues a lot; read court cases and really tried to understand the implications of same-sex marriage. I think this is the longest comment I've ever left on a blog! But I hope it helps you to understand where a lot of us are coming from. I respect everyone's right to disagree.
Zoey thank you for your comment! And thanks for checking out my blog!
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